Neil Loughran: Last year the IABA called a previous EGM where members voted against a change to the current constitution that would have opened the door to a move to another organisation – 14 months on, and here we are again.
This time, though, it is 44 clubs who have requested the EGM to vote on the following special resolution: ‘To remove any references to IBA (AIBA) from all relevant objects in the IABA constitution whether contained in the memorandum or the articles of association.’ What is the significance of clubs bringing this resolution to the table?
Niall O’Carroll: There was probably a historical suspicion of individuals trying to dictate to everyone the direction our organisation should go. I was trying to explain to them that this is a new board of directors, I’m independent, I have no baggage, no dog in the race in boxing.
I wanted them to think about what was right for boxing as opposed to the individual battles they’ve had with each other over the years. Even the individuals involved in IBA, World Boxing or whatever the case may be – just focus on the issue at hand rather than the individuals.
But when the vote went against [71 per cent voted in favour at the previous EGM - 75 per cent was required to implement constitutional change], the feeling of some of the negative people towards the change was that we were trying to railroad them into it, and we’ll ignore them if the vote goes wrong.
I made a commitment, from a democratic point of view, that we would respect the members’ vote, and that the only way I would bring this back to the members was if the members requested it.
We have an article in our constitution that dictates that if 40 member clubs call for an EGM, then we’re bound to have one. So it’s not the board of directors telling the members ‘we need to fix this’, it’s the members saying ‘we recognise there’s a serious problem here, and we’re going nowhere’.
If nothing else we need an answer about where we’re going to be in the future because, right now, we have so many issues that we need to fix, and so many of them are tied to our membership of the IBA.
NL: There was a strong sense at the last EGM that a lot of members were still unsure about where boxing was headed, regarding the current situation involving the IBA, World Boxing and the sport’s Olympic future. Do you feel that has changed?
N O’C: I’d like to think so. It’s a tricky one, because we did an awful lot of work to get the information out there but what was shown at the last vote was that there is quite a vocal minority.
Seventy-one per cent of people at the last vote voted in favour of change, but the messaging that came out was quite confusing... well, I feel that the messaging explaining the situation was quite clear but I think there was a lot of rumour and innuendo and messaging put out there that kind of muddied the waters a little bit.
Like, this vote is about us taking control of our future by taking control of our constitution, and removing the reference to IBA as the only organisation we can be a member of. But what happens is people start talking about World Boxing, then they start identifying individuals in World Boxing, and next thing you get into this ‘he said, she said’ nonsense when actually everything that’s wrong in boxing is about structures.
IBA have done this extremely well over the years. When they got kicked out of the IOC, the only federation to be kicked out of the IOC, they blame Thomas Bach and it’s a personal vendetta by Thomas Bach.
But that’s just distracting everyone from the reality, and the reality is that they’ve now had their appeal kicked out for a second time by the Swiss court. There’s nowhere for them to go now. They have been found to be corrupt, they’ve been found to have no transparency in their finances, they presided over probably the most corrupt Olympics in Rio, where Ireland were impacted, and particularly Michael Conlan.
All of those issues are there and, instead of people actually wanting to talk about how we find a solution, they want to talk about individuals and make this a personal argument.
The same thing goes on in boxing – it’s the CEO’s fault, it’s the president’s fault, it’s the chairman’s fault, and that only exists because the structures within the organisation aren’t strong enough.
As we build those structures better, and that’s something we’re working very hard on, it becomes less about individuals and more about the collective.
NL: Okay, but last year only 145 clubs registered for the EGM – less than half of the 355 clubs in Ireland. For an issue that has such a huge bearing on what is Ireland’s most successful Olympic sport, why is there such indifference?
N O’C: I think partially the issue is, for the vast majority of club boxers, the Olympics is not something on their radar. For most clubs they’re more interested in underage kids getting opportunities at European championships, World championships… maybe 10 per cent of our clubs will ever have an Olympian.
Some people might feel the Olympic conversation is a little bit beyond their day to day, and maybe there’s an assumption that ‘ah look that’ll get taken care of’, and that’s what my worry was at the last EGM.
Also, there’s a lot of misrepresentation going on at the minute that boxing is absolutely not going to be at the Olympics, so it doesn’t matter if we’re in the IBA or not. The reality is that boxing is very much on the radar of LA2028, but what the IOC need to see is that the boxing federations are willing to make a decision that takes it away from then past, and try something new and different.
World Boxing isn’t mentioned in this vote; this vote is not about World Boxing. This is about us making a change to our constitution to allow us, that if there are two, three, four federations running boxing in the world in the next 10 years – and who knows what’s going to happen? – then we have the freedom, as a membership, that we can join all of them, some of them or none of them.
Off the back of the Olympics, people can see the benefits… 1,400 new members have joined our boxing clubs since the Olympics. That is every four-year cycle you’re guaranteed that bump.
So, if nothing else, being the most successful Olympic sport, consistently winning medals, and the feelgood factor that comes from it massively benefits our members.
NL. After Paris 2024 Sarah Keane, president of the Olympic Federation of Ireland (OFI), spoke of the potential consequences should Ireland not sever its links with the IBA – raising the possibility of a new national body being set up. Is this something the IABA and OFI have discussed?
N O’C: No, not at all. In fact I expressed my concern with the wording that Sarah used in that statement. I understood the messaging she was giving in relation to the frustration of the OFI, but I didn’t appreciate the reference to a split.
I don’t think it’s helpful, particularly when 71 per cent of the members voted in favour of change last time. That would suggest that the vast majority of the IABA are in favour of remaining in the Olympic fold, so I don’t really see where we would benefit from a split.
We’re one of the few sports that have consistent success as an all-island sport, and I would hate for us to start looking at the possibility of us to start splintering out and going different directions.
I understand some people criticise, and say you’re being bullied by Sport Ireland, Sport NI or the OFI, but the issue of funding is not the issue in relation to this decision.
But for us to plan our future, we have to understand where we are financially – what can we achieve? Who are the hires we can make? What are the structures we can put in place?
One thing I find really disappointing since I’ve taken over is, when I was a young man living in Dublin, I used to go to the National Stadium to watch international competitions, and we just don’t do that any more.
That’s something we absolutely need to do. My thinking is if we’ve got security, financially, going forward over the next four years, we can start to plan on getting countries in.
One of the issues we have right now, with our membership of IBA, is we can’t entertain the Americans, they’re completely banned. We’ve got England, Scotland, Wales, Canada, Germany, Italy have just announced they’re going to World Boxing… all these countries on our doorstep and we can’t get insurance to fight them, because our insurance will only cover us to fight the organisations that are in our constitution, so basically organisations that are IBA.
NL: Just on the OFI and Sport Ireland, will there be funding implications for currently carded athletes depending on how Saturday’s vote goes?
N O’C: There has been no threat of the removal of funding based on this vote but the reality has to be that, over the course of the next couple of years, it will have an impact. If we’re not an Olympic sport, we’re not going to get Olympic funding.
So our funding will be impacted in the long run, but there’s no threat that if this vote goes wrong that funding for our elite boxers is cut the next week. Absolutely not.
In fact, I believe Sport Ireland and the OFI have been quite supportive of us in what we’re trying to do, and understand the position that we’ve been put in, that isn’t of our own making.
There has been no threat of sanction… there have been obvious conversations from the OFI to explain to us the situation with the IOC (International Olympic Committee) in relation to boxing in Los Angeles, and the fact the IOC want to see one boxing federation that is transparent and respected and representative of all the international federations around the world.
NL: We sit now at the beginning of a new Olympic cycle - can you explain the timeline for Ireland in terms of possible participation in LA 2028, should boxing be included in the programme. At last year’s EGM a lot of people felt there was no rush but, at the beginning of a new Olympic cycle, is greater urgency required now?
N O’C: The honest answer is Ireland’s participation in LA is very much dependent on what happens globally.
There’s no guarantees but my sense is that that the IOC want boxing in LA – it’s a very popular sport in America, on American soil it would make sense, the Americans have been very heavily involved in the setting up of World Boxing, so I think there’s a genuine will to have boxing at the Olympics.
My sense, and I don’t know this for certain, is that the IOC will make a decision before the end of the year, one way or the other, and I think what they want to see is federations making the move away from IBA.
There has been significant movement, I think what they want to see is that next step of movement. From a selfish point of view, I want us to be able to go and box regularly against the countries we have the relationships with.
I feel we’re in isolation right now, and the danger is if we continue in isolation we will find it hard to get countries to box in Ireland. Those relationships get lost very quickly, so building them back up is very important.
People can make it as political as they want, or as individual as they want, but this is a decision about what’s best for all the kids who are boxing in our clubs in their future. There’s no way taking the Olympics off the table makes sense to any kid in this country.
