Cahair O’Kane: Is Team Ulster a runner at all?
Ronan Sheehan: If you can’t make it work at underage, you won’t make it work at senior. To try and put it together at senior level at the minute, it won’t happen. You could try it at U15 level and see if you can make it work, and you had five players from each of the top three counties who play ‘A’ grade hurling, then there might be some merit in it. You need to look at where you are at that stage. It’s hard enough to get boys to turn their back on club football without asking them to commit to another team. At senior level, with all the expectation and training, it’s difficult. I’m an advocate of it, but I’d be trying it at underage first.
Neil McManus: I think it’s totally unfeasible. Never mind the logistical nightmare, I don’t want to play for Ulster against Dublin or Tipperary. I want to play for Antrim against them. My desire to travel to Cookstown or wherever, I wouldn’t be motivated to do it. I want to play for Antrim.
CO’K: I’d put it to you that that’s grand for Antrim, they’re getting the opportunity to play those games themselves. Is there a selfishness on Antrim’s part in terms of the whole picture, not committing to the Ulster Club league, etc? Does Antrim have to look at itself and think ‘are we helping Ulster hurling?’
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NMcM: Anything we think can be beneficial to Ulster hurling, Antrim have to be part of and invest time in it. I’ve played as much outside the Liam McCarthy as in it, but at no stage when we weren’t in it did I want to play for Ulster rather than Antrim. Players don’t want to. I don’t think players from Derry want to either. It would be like playing in the Railway Cup – a once-off, a carnival match. It’s so easy for people to say ‘give Team Ulster a go’. You need to start at the bottom and develop the structures in each county, all together. As Ronan says, it’ll take a lot of money, but it would be money well spent. There’s a lot of money in the GAA that’s not well spent.
They should invest in that group of counties who can realistically broaden the top tier. The GAA surely have an onus on them to develop that group and make it more inclusive. Team Ulster, never mind how it wouldn’t work logistically and players not wanting to play, what about the counties left behind? If you want to make that successful, those players would not be playing with their counties, and probably their clubs either, that’s the truth. It’s totally anti-GAA I think.
Ollie Bellew: I think Antrim does help Ulster hurling already by opening up its leagues to a lot of the Down clubs, Armagh, Derry, Tyrone. We’ve ambitious clubs in our leagues and it helps us too. That’s a big thing for Ulster hurling in general. These clubs want to be in our leagues and competing against our players. Antrim hurling, to be fair, does contribute greatly to Ulster hurling.
Dominic McKinley: Ones were saying I was one of the dinosaurs against Team Ulster, but if somebody could explain to me how it actually works. Say you’re taking five or six out of Derry, what happens the rest? Are they just gonna play some lower league? How will they feel being left out? Dual players couldn’t commit the time. At minor level, you’d need to be training an average of 60 times a year. How will they give up that time? It’s just not realistic. I’d love it, I loved playing for Ulster, but it was a bonus. But would it not be to the detriment of hurling within these counties? If I was playing for Antrim and somebody took the six or seven best players away, I don’t think I’d have hung about too long for Antrim. You would have gone back to your club and never become the player you could. I just don’t see it happening.
RS: The logistics is a massive issue. If the reason is to put together a team that would be competitive, without Antrim’s input it wouldn’t be. Is it worth trying at underage to put a pool of players together at U15, five or six from each county and put a bit of effort in? Would each of the counties then benefit from those lads playing at ‘A’ grade. I’m not sure, but it’s worth trying something like that. To put together a senior team without trying it at underage would be madness.
I’ve been an advocate for trying these things because we need to try and find a way to expose our teams to a higher level, that’s lads in Derry and Armagh and wherever. It’s going to be a long-term project to make teams competitive. There only is a certain pool of money to go around. This isn’t a popular opinion and I say it as someone coming from a club that knows what it’s like to fight the fight in difficult times, but we should be prioritising where we spend our money in terms of hurling development, as opposed to the catch-all approach we have at the minute.
We send money from Croke Park into places all over Ireland where hurling is never gonna go. It’s gonna survive, but it’s subsistence hurling, and the five or six counties that could make the next step are the ones that could really use the funding. It’s not a popular opinion but it’s something the GAA seriously needs to look at. If they’re serious about raising standards, they need to do it in those five or six counties first rather than the catch-all, which isn’t working and everyone’s just falling between the stools.
CO’K: To ask you for a blueprint is too wide-ranging. If there were three elements that are essential to focus on in terms of improving Ulster hurling, what would they be?
DMcK: A combined Ulster Schools team, run at the right time and properly run and funded, playing the ‘A’ competition is a possibility. It’s been proven before. It lets players see what it’s like on the outside. The other is creating a Joe McDonagh and Christy Ring competition at all those age groups from U15 is the way forward. Ronan talked about Abbottstown but I’d love to see a place developed halfway, beyond Newry, in Louth, two fields available to Ulster teams where you could go and play friendlies. If Antrim seniors wanted to play Dublin on a Thursday evening, they could do that and get home at a reasonable time.
RS: For me, looking at underage structures, be it at colleges or U15 level, they should do something with a combined Ulster team. They should have proper competition at underage that’s relevant to your level. Replicating the McDonagh Cup at U20 is critical. We have a big gap between U17 and U20. Our two universities aren’t in the Fitzgibbon so U20 becomes a very important grade for us, finding the right level becomes very important. The third, and most important, is a proper plan for development of hurling in urban areas. Whether that’s Belfast, Derry city, Newry, Armagh city – wherever the big populations are and the opportunity for growth exists, that’s where we should be focusing the efforts to grow the game and maximise the number of players coming through. We shouldn’t do it if we don’t think the club structures in the area are good enough to sustain it because then you’re just throwing good money after bad. We also have to be very careful that we don’t under-invest in the clubs that have always sustained hurling in the province. When I’m talking to Sean Óg [McAteer, Down secretary] about developing hurling, I always say we need to be very careful about the Ards, because we’re reliant on three small clubs who have been producing players for the county. North Antrim hurling needs support as well, you can’t rely on volunteers all the time.
OB: The universities were mentioned, that’s a good starting point. For underage teams, the university model would work very well. Play a league in winter to establish what level you’re at and then go into the championship later on, you’re competing with teams you’re on a par with instead of an open draw where you can be wiped out. The universities have a 200-mile rule where if you’re travelling more than that both ways, the game has to be at a neutral venue halfway. The north Antrim boys, it’s an hour to Belfast before you get on the road to anywhere. Accommodating that is important.
Underage structures, it’s putting a system in place to find out what level teams are at and giving them competitive games and meaningful competitions. I don’t see Team Ulster as a runner. We’re not doing as badly as people are alluding to. If you look at this year’s league results, Antrim were one result away from finishing second to Kilkenny. What more can we aspire to at the minute? We’re not going to win the Liam McCarthy at the minute, let’s be honest. But I’m not as downbeat as other people. Our counties are doing well. It’s not all doom and gloom.
NMcM: It’s not all doom and gloom, definitely not, but we’ve all said it here, we’re surviving on the fruits of a number of strong hurling clubs against counties who are operating with 30 very strong clubs. Unless we increase our mass participation and develop new, strong hurling clubs, we’re in trouble.
If Croke Park are serious about developing Ulster hurling, they should appoint somebody – not a committee, not a review, but a person to be Director of Ulster Hurling. That person has to set out structures that are required. It needs a specialised person who can set out a project of starting out at grassroots, building for an elite section, building for mass participation. It was done in Dublin, it can be done in other places. Kildare are doing it currently. That person would work with counties and embed the structures where counties are serious about developing hurling. The fruits of that would be seen very quickly because the counties serious about it would put people into the positions to make the structures a success. The counties that don’t do that don’t get their funding until those structures are in place. The third thing is the funding needs to be available. If Croke Park commit to that, you have a three-step way of getting funding into the counties so you’re developing senior hurlers. It’s a decade away from the start of anything, no doubt about.
CO’K: Where will Ulster hurling realistically be in ten years’ time?
NMcM: It’s hard to say. My first year with Antrim was 2007 when Woody took over. We’re in a similar enough position now, nearly 15 years later. That year, we beat Dublin in the league, beat Wexford in the league, I think we beat Offaly too. Our biggest championship win was 2010, beating Dublin. That certainly could be achieved [in the next ten years]. In my time, there have been dips where we regressed into the Christy Ring. Sambo and Woody came in to try and bring it back up five or six years ago. When the structures are right, we are capable. By and large, it was the same players who played in the Christy Ring that played in the Leinster Championship this year. What I’ve seen in the last 15 years is that we can be where we are now in 10 years’ time, but as things are, I don’t see us making a drastic step forward to being a top-six team.
DMcK: If you look at the GAA and the amount of funding lost through Covid, the amount available in the next three or four years is going to be limited. You’re back to choosing where you invest. Like a business, we need to invest wisely within the counties that will do the proper things. That’s back to the pathway we have for schools and clubs. People have to get the proper things in place before they’re funded and if they don’t, they don’t get funding. I’d say there is money being wasted in counties. We need proper investment and measure what happens. Say Derry city, you need to measure what happens and if it’s not working, the investment maybe needs to be pulled. It’s like Gaelfast, the investment has to be measured because Antrim need something out of this, big time. If we don’t get anything out of this, our next 15 years will be the same, ups and downs. The Antrim team that’s there now, would need to be staying in Division One for six or seven years for anything to materialise. If they do that, then the Liam McCarthy becomes a vision. Can you see that happening? If you’re being honest, I don’t think it will happen, and that’s disappointing. Years of going up and down are not what we need. We need our minors and U20s put in place, and done really quickly. There will still be a gap, and what’s coming below, will that keep us up for the next five or six years? I’m not sure it will, to be honest.
RS: Standards will improve because the nature of coaching is improving, but I’m not convinced the gap to the elite will close. They’re moving at a faster pace than we are. From a Down perspective, we’d have ambitions to consolidate and be a consistent Joe McDonagh and Division 2A team. Do we have the ambition to get into the Liam McCarthy? Yeah. I’m not sure we’d stay there. It would be very difficult. If you stay where you are for five or six years, you build up a pool of players and give yourself a chance of moving to the next level.
For all of the Ulster counties, there needs to be a very clear strategic plan. Where do they want to be in ten years’ time? Where do they see themselves being? What help do they need from Croke Park to get there? Those number of counties, Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, Carlow, Down, Kerry – what is the GAA’s plan for them? Are they just going to be left to try and develop on their own? Or is there a plan to try and make two or three of them consistent competitors?
Can we get Laois, Antrim, these teams consistently competing in the McCarthy Cup? Can we bring Down, Derry consistently competing in the McDonagh Cup? Can we bring Armagh to competing in the Christy Ring, and Fermanagh and Cavan in the Nicky Rackard? Everyone should have a realistic target.
NMcM: I think you’d be good at that job I’m talking about, Ronan.
RS: I’ve enough to be doing with the U7s at the Shamrocks. Getting more young fellas hurling in Newry would be the main priority!
